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Air Force Plant Number 4 (AFP4)

Air Force Plant 4 (AFP4): November 13, 1997 Informational Teleconference


Air Force Plant #4
Project Xl Teleconference
November 13, 1997


Walsh, Walter (EPA HQ)
Cardenas, Adele (EPA Region 6)
Bond, David (EPA Region 6)
Stubblefield, Joyce (EPA Region 6 Federal Facilities Coordinator)
Tate, Ragan (EPA Region 6)
Finley, Trace (TNRCC)
Bodner, Bryan (HQ AF)
Ellingson, Tom (AFMC)
Mendelsohn, Clare (AFMC)
Joshi, Surendra (AFMC)
Rosenthal, Bill (Lockheed Martin)
Persky, Bill (Lockheed Martin)
Fetter, Scott (Lockheed Martin)
Brown, Lee (Lockheed Martin)
Curtis, Kevin (Keystone Center)
Atkins, Jocelyn (Keystone Center)
Siegmann, Lora (ICF)

Action Items


1. Major Bodner will work with Lockheed Martin, AFMC, and TNRCC to demonstrate the differences in implementation of a modified Title V process and a consent agreement.
2. Ms. Cardenas will provide Major Bodner with information describing the Title V process.
3. Major Bodner will forward the Puget Sound public participation plan to Mr. Joshi.
4. Mr. Curtis will contact the national environmental groups to invite them to participate in the project. Mr. Ellingson and Ms. Mendelsohn will verify this action. Mr. Curtis will follow-up with Major Bodner and Mr. Walsh.
5. A process for involving stakeholders in the time period between the kickoff meeting and the first stakeholder meeting will be developed on November 19.
6. AFMC and Lockheed Martin will invite city council members to participate in the project.
7. Mr. Finley will follow up with TNRCC Commissioner's office. 8. AFMC will coordinate with the hotel regarding logistics for lunch and other details.

The purposes of this teleconference were to (1) update the group on the EPA/DoD negotiations concerning the form of the enforcement mechanism, (2) discuss stakeholder issues with the Keystone Center regarding the November 20, 1997 Project XL/ENVVEST Kickoff Meeting for Air Force Plant #4 (AFP4), and (3) to further discuss the agenda for the meeting. A number of issues were discussed and are summarized below.

Timing Issues Related to the Proposed Project. Major Bryan Bodner (AF) reviewed the timing of issues related to the proposed AFP4 project for Region 6. DOD/LMTAS will submit their AFP4 Title V permit application under the current schedule in early 1999. Major Bodner estimates that they would need until well into 1999 to phase-in compliance with any XL/ENVVEST-related requirements. Compressing the Title V schedule into nine months (e.g., requiring permit application submittal in February 1998) to obtain a completed Title V permit as the ENVVEST enforcement mechanism by November 1998 would strain resources and planning efforts. Mr. Ragan Tate (EPA Region 6) thanked Major Bodner for this explanation, and noted that he and Ben Harrison are the Region 6 attorneys overseeing the XL process in the Region.

Enforcement Mechanism. Limited discussion related to the DoD/EPA negotiations was held on the enforcement mechanism to be used for the proposed project, (i.e., a modified Title V process and/or a consent agreement) to bridge the facility until it obtains a finalized Title V permit. Mr. Persky (LMTAS) reiterated AFMC/LMTAS's belief that the regulatory reinvention objectives of providing a cleaner, cheaper, and smarter approach to superior environmental performance is jeopardized by creating complicated enforcement mechanisms such as specialized Title V permits when there are simpler permitting approaches or consent agreements that offer the same enforceable results. Adele Cardenas (EPA Region 6) said this issue is being discussed in the EPA management chain. Major Bodner said he would work with Lockheed Martin and AFMC to explore the Title V and consent agreement alternatives. He asked Ms. Cardenas to provide him with information describing the Title V process to assist him, and she agreed. Ms. Cardenas stated that TNRCC's Title V contact (Shannon DiSorbo) has discussed with AFP4 the Title V permit application process, possible simplifications, and required timelines. AFP4 stated that the discussions have been limited to only the timeline and not any possible simplifications.

Assistance Available from the Keystone Center. Kevin Curtis (Keystone Center) introduced himself and his organization. He said that the Keystone Center is a non-profit organization under contract with EPA's Office of Reinvention to provide a variety of services, including convening and facilitating XL roundtable and sector meetings. The Keystone Center has provided technical assistance to various specific XL projects, including facilitation and mediation services and training for participants.

Stakeholder Participation Efforts. Surendra Joshi (AFMC) noted that he has distributed the AFP4 Stakeholder Involvement Plan (SIP), which includes the names of all invited groups (e.g., EDF, Sierra Club, NRDC, Forth Worth Environmental Council, the Lockheed Martin Machinists' Union, and the AFP4 Restoration Advisory Board (RAB)). He explained that, (as summarized in the SIP), notifications of the public meeting and an invitation to participate was e-mailed to the national offices of EDF, NRDC, and the Sierra Club on October 15 and 16, 1997. No response has been received. He has not received comments from EPA and DoD on the revised SIP plan. Mr. Joshi noted that he is briefing the RAB on the project, and that this is the first time he has addressed the group about a non-cleanup issue. RAB participants appear interested in future as well as past activities at the plant. All RAB participants have been invited to the kickoff meeting, and the Air Force expects one RAB member to participate as a direct participant in the project. Major Bodner noted he would send the Puget Sound public participation plan to Mr. Joshi for his information.

Lockheed Martin noted that the project is not controversial due to the superior environmental benefits, and that they anticipate no local opposition. One concern was raised that national environmental groups may have a philosophical objection to the concept of Project XL. Lockheed Martin expects a small core group to attend the kickoff meeting, but has not received any response to the public notice published in six local newspapers. Mr. Curtis noted that a primary concern of the national environmental groups is the degree that individual XL projects are precedent-setting (i.e., that the results from AFP4 might be applied to other facilities outside of XL). Lockheed Martin said that the site-specific nature of the project would appear to limit that objection. Other questions of concern to national environmental groups are what kind of environmental representatives are participating, how participants were invited, and whether a third party facilitator is being used. Mr. Joshi stated that AFMC intends to hire a third party facilitator. Mr. Curtis emphasized that a connection between the local and national environmental groups cannot be assumed. He said that some of the national environmental groups are currently re-examining their participation in EPA's stakeholder initiatives, under the basic premise that stakeholder participation is an inadequate proxy for the role of government regulators. Walter Walsh (EPA HQ) noted that some national environmental groups are making the strategic decision not to participate in projects involving stakeholders until the eleventh hour (e.g., after notice is published in the Federal Register), in order to limit their involvement.

Mr. Curtis recommended that the Air Force and Lockheed Martin use Mr. Walsh, Ms. Cardenas, and himself for advice regarding locating stakeholders. Major Bodner asked Mr. Curtis to contact the national environmental groups to confirm with these groups that they were invited to participate in this project, and asked Tom Ellingson (AFMC) and Clare Mendelsohn (AFMC) to ensure that this happens. Mr. Curtis will look at the public participation plan to see who was invited from what groups, and will follow-up with Major Bodner and Mr. Walsh.

Joyce Stubblefield (EPA Region 6) asked if stakeholders would inquire about the enforcement mechanism to be used for the project. Major Bodner stressed that this decision will not be made by the date of the meeting and should not be presented as a finalized decision. He said it would be appropriate to discuss the process for obtaining a Final Project Agreement (FPA) and an enforcement mechanism, and the fact that an enforcement mechanism will be selected, and also to ask attendees for their ideas. At the next meeting, when a draft FPA is available, this issue would be discussed more substantively. Mr. Curtis said that a process for involving stakeholders in the time period between the kickoff meeting and the first stakeholder meeting needs to be developed. Major Bodner noted that a range of stakeholder involvement (e.g., direct, indirect, etc.) is appropriate, but agreed that some media outreach may need to be conducted between the meetings. Ms. Cardenas recommended deciding this issue on November 19.

Ms. Stubblefield asked if any city government officials were invited to participate. Mr. Joshi confirmed that there are no city council representatives on the RAB. Major Bodner asked the AFMC and Lockheed Martin to invite appropriate city council to participate.

Trace Finley (TNRCC) asked if Barry McBee, Commissioner of the TNRCC, had been personally invited to participate in the meeting. Participants were not aware of extending a personal invitation to Mr. McBee. Major Bodner emphasized that if dignitaries such as Mr. McBee attend the meeting, then the agenda will need to be revised to provide them time to speak. Mr. Finley said he would follow up with Mr. McBee's office. Ms. Cardenas said that adjustments to the agenda could be made on November 19.

FPA Signatures. Mr. Walsh noted that sometimes just the regulatory agencies and the facility sign FPAs, and in other cases citizen stakeholders sign the document. This decision should evolve out of the project's discussions. The stakeholder group is essentially an "advisory group" to facilitate the process. At the close of the group's efforts, EPA will examine whether the process was sufficiently open and inclusive. He noted that ground rules will need to be developed for the project.

Facilitation. Ms. Cardenas stated that Sean Casey (ICF), under contract to EPA, will facilitate the kickoff meeting. The Air Force and Lockheed Martin are responsible for facilitation for future meetings. Ms. Cardenas suggested that a "dry run" of the agenda be conducted on November 19.

Logistics. Major Bodner asked AFMC to coordinate with the hotel regarding logistics for lunch and other details.

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